I have had generally better passes by cars under the new rules.  On Sunday my son was playing cricket at Golden Grove.  Being a lower order batsman I was in for a long day so I looked on Google Earth and saw One Tree Hill Road and thought it would be a nice ride.  I turned back after 1/2 an hour because I felt so uncomfortable with close passes and fast passes into corners.  I didn't see another cyclist in the hour of riding.  Is this a no go zone for cyclists or was everyone on Amy's Ride?  Did I just have a bad day?

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Heh, yep, that one's me

I thought it was you at 0:14 - in real life I was much more sure than now looking back at footage.

Nope, not me, although equally as awkward-looking

at the 1:48 mark ("1st day 1 meter rule" video), the white ute crosses the double line to overtake the cyclist but what has clearly happened is that a cyclist on the descent has had to get out the way pretty quickly from the on-coming ute.

You experienced that yourself at about 1:55 on your descent!

I've seen this (while going up) and experienced it (while going down hills). I have also had drivers bravely overtake and cross the lines to suddenly realise that there is a car coming and then they swerve back into the lane towards the cyclist.

The 1m and 1.5 m passing rule is good, but the crossing a double line increases the risk.

This is the problem for encouraging car drivers to overtake on no-overtaking lines. It helps people in cars, but puts cyclists at greater risk.

I agree - the overtake of me was ok, but he shouldn't have tried to then overtake the next rider before the next bend (ie he should have just overtaken me and waited until safe).

There are plenty of places where the double line overtake is safe - but there are plenty where it isn't.  Part of the problem is that many people think it means "drivers can over take cyclist on double white lines", but it is more nuanced than that.  If it is not safe or if you can't see oncoming traffic (blind bend) it is not permitted.

There is a similar one at 1:50 where the red car is close to me and the ascending rider on double red lines.  I don't think it could ever be considered safe if their is oncoming traffic.

Sunday morning on Fork Tree Road out the back of Carrickalinga.  All overtakes on double white lines.  One was dangerously close to blind corner.  All gave me plenty of room.

It is a bit hard to say for sure, trying to analyse it on a video, but I would be tempted to say that all four of those over-takes were probably unsafe.
There are two aspects as far as safety for the cyclist is concerned, and one aspect as far as safety for the motorists.
There are possibly three vehicles involved in any overtake where there is a blind bend, blind corner, or combo of blind bend plus blind corner. (As there is in your video)
And the rider needs to not only be considering his own safety, but the safety of the usually incompetent driver who is overtaking. More than 50%, and probably closer to 85% of drivers in my experience, do not understand the overtake towards a blind crest or corner.
And given that most riders are also drivers, then it can be assumed that nearly 80% of riders also don't understand the 'maths' of overtaking towards blind crests and corners!
For a safe overtake the vehicle needs to be back on the left side of the double lines in about the same distance before that blind crest/corner as it took to do the whole overtake from where they first started crossing over to the wrong side of the centre line.
The WA government understands this and when I was driving towards Perth a few months ago, about 100km north of Perth, I was very impressed to see the double lines starting about 400m before any blind crest or corner. And because the crests and corners were frequent, that meant that there was a continual double line for many km! As it should be.
On the other hand, as I approached Kimba in SA there was a complete 'balls up' in how the double lnes were painted. They were starting only about 100m before each crest, for crest after crest, coming into Kimba. That's just asking for fatalities!

So in your video I saw all four vehicles safely passing you in terms of the 1.5m clearance rule, but only returned to the left of the road at the top of the crest.

Given that it appears they took maybe 100m or 150m (hard to measure from a video), then they really should have completed the overtake about the same distance before the crest.

I call this idea the double the distance rule - 'Don't commence an overtake unless you have double the distance to the blind point than the distance between starting and finishing the overtake.

That extra distance is for any car/truck that might appear over that crest/corner while the overtake is in progress.

In your video you were just lucky no cars did appear over those hllls or around those bends.

Off course if it is a hoon driver coming towards you who is well above the speed limit, then that is going to be even more dangerous!

So, as a cyclist you need to be aware that when a driver overtakes after the double distance point, and then another car comes over the crest/around the corner, what is the overtaking driver going to do?

If you are lucky it happens very eearly n the overtake and they still have time to hit the brakes and duck in behind the cyclist.

If it happens very late in the overtake then they are almost back on the left anyway and they can do a bit of over-steering and swerve back to the left.

But if it happens in the middle, or even worse just behind the rider, they are in a very tricky situation, as is the rider!

Hopefully they are skillful enough to hit the brakes very hard, hopefully the rider keeps going as fast as they can, and hopefully that car can get in behind the rider without running them over. And with a bit of luck the oncoming car sees the problem and has room to put two wheels on the dirt to give more room too.

As a cyclist seeing the large number of incompetent overtakes over the years I just move right over to the left of the bitumen, and if the road is really narrow, off the bitumen, whenever I see a car coming up from behind that will pass me within about 200m from a blind crest or corner.

That way they don't need to risk their lives and cross over to the wrong side of the road too close to that blind corner/crest.


And they also not putting any unsuspecting lives at risk for the drivers and passengers coming in the opposite direction!

And I am also safe of course if a car/truck suddenly appears coming from the crest/corner.



Thanks Heather. Yes, I have noticed several accidents both in SA and inter-state where I reckon the blind corner/crest has been the cause of a rider fatality.

I think that occurs quite often, but the driver does not admit to doing a bad overtake. They probably just say "Oh, I didn't see the poor rider. The sun was in my eyes, . . . ".

And how to encourage riders to fit a good mirror to their bikes so that they can easily check behind when-ever they approach a blind corner, or blind crest, or just as dangerous, when-ever they are on a perfectly straight road and they see a car coming towards them.
In all three cases, either within 200m before a blind corner/crest, or on a narrow road and a car is approaching from in front - check the mirror!
If car is coming from behind - move right over to left so car does not have to either cross to wrong side of road approaching blind corner/crest, or squeeze past with unsafe clearance if car coming towards you on a narrow road.
A good mirror is not one of these little 20 cent sized round things with convex surface. They so small, and the convex makes the image very very small.

The convex widens the field of view. But it also makes the image very small.

So small that you can only see cars apart from the specks of dust, or rai drops, when they are almost on you. About 50m or less!

And the image is so small it is impossible for you to accurately guage how far away they are. Are they 100m away? 200m? Anyone's guess. 

You need a much larger mirror and wone that is either flat or just minimal curvature.

And the closer that mirror is to your eyes the better. The closer it is the greater the angle you get to see. The best position is if it is mounted on the top of the bar, not right down on the end of the drops as I see on so many bikes!

And the fact that so many riders have no mirror at all! That is just completely irresponsible to both themselves, their family and friends, and to other road users.

And yet for some reason no one ever seems to talk about mirrors.

Without a mirror you are just riding on a hope and a prayer!

It should not be like that. It should be riding with skill, with strategies, and with 100% awareness throughout your ride as to what is happening behind.
And then to act in a self defensive manner, rather than expect motorists to look after you.

Most bike riders whinge about poor drivers. I whinge about riders who whinge about poor drivers! I have no issues with idiot drivers. I know they are out there in their thousands. I ride accordingly. There is no way they will ever give up their driver's license, or change their ways. So why waste time and breath whinging about them? Do something about it. Ride defensively.

Ride defensively. Choose routes with less traffic. Choose roads with less corners and crests. Choose wider roads. If you want to enjoy the views in the hills - drive the car through the hills lol. Or be on full alert approaching every corner and crest, and be prepared to move right over t the left if a car comes up from behind.

I do a lot of my rides on more open, less windy routes, and often at night when there is little traffic.

And I make good use of the many bike-ways, Greenways and shared paths that let me ride up to 300km on one ride, with very little of it on roads at all.

Wow, and you post another wall of text.

Don't you see any problem with going into threads (all those other threads you dredged up) that are about people being killed or seriously injured whilst riding their bikes and then posting your diatribes about how it is all their own fault?

Maybe you should start your own threads rather than dredge up old ones. Then again, maybe you should get a trainer so you don't have to deal with all the dangers on the road. A mirror wouldn't have been of much help to this person http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5171436/christian-didnt-die-so-i-....

You are right. A mirror would not have helped that rider. Well said.

Not sure if you understand that I am actually trying to save people lives with my 'diatribes' and 'walls of text!

I feel I have made you feel guilty and that I have upset you as a result. Do you have a mirror yourself? Is it a reasonably sized mirror? Is it mounted as close to your eyes as possible - i.e. on the top bar and not down low on your drops?

If not, then you can increase your chances of surviving on our dangerous roads by doing as I suggested.

Rather than be upset, I would like you to tell me which part of my 'diatribe' you disagree with.

It is good to talk about ways we can stay alive while enjoying the experience of riding. I certainly enjoy riding and I do not let dangerous drivers upset me. I have moved on from those emotions and feel a lot safer now that I have set up strategies to negate their bad driving.

I hope I am not doing the wrong thing by entering in on a  a thread that is very much related to some of the ideas I have about safer riding.

My apologies to you, and to anyone else I may have offended.

I sometimes get a bit emotional against riders who I feel are not helping themselves but are happy to criticise motorists and expect them to be perfect drivers. I think we can say all sorts of things about them, complain about their bad driving, contact the over-worked and under-staffed police about them, etc etc. But it is like trying to hold back an avalanche with a teaspoon. There are way too many of them.

Education can help for sure. But it will take a long time for it to improve things and will never make 100% of drivers perfect. Even good drivers have moments when they are not perfect. So in the mean-time the best we can do to help ourselves is to be smart about how we ride.

And even then we are still taking a gamble every time we go out on the roads. I am prepared to take that gamble. But I like to maximise my chances of getting home safely.

I also like to try to educate cyclists about the mathematics of an overtake. As I have tried to do in this thread.

The message being that a cyclist is in danger for a whole lot more than just the last 50m or so before the top of a crest or a blind corner. I say I am at risk for about 200m before that point. And also at risk for a similar distance after the blind corner/crest.

Hence the need for a mirror, and the need to move right over to the left if the mirror shows a car coming up to overtake in that 200m. Even onto the gravel if needed, so no car is ever 'forced' to go to the wrong side of the road. That way I am almost 100% safe.

I don't like gambing with my life if I don't have to.




Comparison to January 2014 Victor Harbor to Normanville (day before TDU community ride).  Lots of 1.5m + overtakes, lots of crossing the double white lines safely and a few idiots.

This was the worst pass

 

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