The feature current feature story Adelaidenow is another motorists v cyclists item. http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/citizens-jury-to...

It asks the question "How can we end the war between cyclists and cars?"

For a start, maybe AdelaideNow could stop publishing inflammatory articles that fan the tensions along with the inevitable counter productive and often factually incorrect comments

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Today I was talking to a cycling buddy who has just returned from Cairns and told me about the separation of bikes and vehicles at those many roundabouts just North of Cairns.

Could Adelaide do thi$ $ $ ? ?

http://www.cairnspost.com.au/lifestyle/how-cyclists-are-driving-roa...     

Pete, there were cyclist deaths at those dual-lane high-speed roundabouts before action taken. Forced authorities to recognise Australian studies dating back years that roundabouts are safer for vehicle occupants than ordinary intersections, but more hazardous for cyclists.

I used to live in Cairns and I remember those roundabouts as being pretty big with large shoulders - easy to retro fit.

I'd suggest most Adelaide roundabouts are much tighter as to space - nonetheless it would be interesting to see what could be done. A civil engineer or lay person needs to mock up an example or two. Wonder which would make for a good case study?

Ross, you probably recall an AC discussion this year where Austroads finally admitted that Australian-design roundabouts tend to be hazardous for cyclists. That VicRoads / Melbourne is considering modifying some roundabouts, but did not state which ones.

Isn't the problem ultimately much larger than cyclists vs cars? There is a lot of aggression and rage out there towards other car drivers. This morning was a good example. Something went wrong somewhere and it seemed like there were cars everywhere and whenever I got moving someone was on my tail wanting me to go faster than the limit.

Adelaide isn't the 15 minute city and drivers have to get used to that. It's just that they see cyclists moving along nicely and make us the targets.

And those of us fit, healthy looking cyclists who dress in (arguably) the most appropriate, comfortable cycling gear, get the most attention from others be it motorists or radio shock jocks because we don't look like people, we look like cyclists. If we were to ride in normal, everyday clothing (I'm not), we would probably be seen just as people riding bikes and possibly be treated as such.

Pete, I cycle in ordinary casual clothing and still the target of road rage.

that's a good observation Gus.

There certainly are days, places or times when more drivers seem to be aggro and impatient. It may not be directed at cyclists particularly, just that cyclists are so much more vulnerable in the presence of aggressive dangerous behaviour.

yep I think you're right Gus- it is a bigger problem, I've driven a lot in most of the major cities around this wonderful country and without doubt Adelaide is the worst- I'm not sure if they are oblivious of other road users or just don't care (go into any city carpark and count how many cars are actually parked inside their parking lines, how often are cars parked in peak clearways etc), but I much prefer driving in Sydney and Melbourne, hey I'd feel more comfortable driving in Asia than here.

Having said that- I feel more relaxed on my bike here than I do in my car

Changing attitudes is really hard- but I would think that New York might be a good example of how it can be fixed?

Yep, it is much larger than cyclists versus cars, it's ultimately about citizens having access to public space and the need to share that public space. In this particular instance, it's about how we share the space set aside for movement from point A to point B. It's about pedestrians, cyclists and motorised vehicles, it's about moving people and moving goods. Cars vs cyclists is a distraction.

The citizen's jury as briefly describe in the Premier's press release has virtually no chance of improving the situation and probably has a higher chance of making it worse.

As many posters on this thread have mentioned, why would we not just listen to the experts and review the mountains of data available? Why would a random bunch of people be best placed to develop sensible strategies?

My question is can Bike SA come out as representatives of cyclists and speak out against this move? Is it just me or do they seem to be overly friendly to everyone to the detriment of their members?

Some years ago I switched my cycling membership from Bike SA to BISA. Bike SA appeared disinterested in cycling advocacy, like when I wrote letters to govt with CC to Bike SA.

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