ATLM has been installed by Department of Transport, Planning & Infrastructure (DPTI) along the edges of the Main South Rd over Sellicks Hill. ATLMs are raised thermoplastic bars around 150mm long laid just outside the edge of lane line(fog line) exactly where a cyclist rides. The bars shake a bike considerably when you ride over them, quite sufficiently to cause possible loss of control if done at speed, especially when wet. Riding over them is definitely to be avoided. In some areas there is a rideable shoulder to the left of the ATLMs but in other places the shoulder is only 150mm or less. To ride the road there are many places where you need to ride within the marked traffic lane & cross the ATLMs to get back to the shoulder. DPTI's own standards state "Minimum criteria for edge line ATLM: Sealed shoulder shall be no less than 0.5m wide" See DTPI Pavement Marking Manual page C78. I feel that even this width of shoulder would be inadequate. Around 0.8m wide outside the ATLMs of clean smooth pavement should be the minimum. The ATLMs would then even provide cyclists some protection to ride on the shoulder.
The Main South Road is designated a cycling corridor, Sellicks Hill is the only way to cycle south from the Aldinga, Maslins, Moana region unless you go inland to Willunga Hill. The BikeSA Coast to Coast goes over Sellicks Hill. DTPI have successfully made Fleurieu cycling more dangerous, continuing what seems like a deliberate policy of discouraging road cycling by Local & State Government. No wonder riders are cycling less.
All good, important to let them know. I have had good experienced with DPTI facebook messenger in the past, I never used to get a response from the normal online form.
Thanks for a good suggestion Rob.
Had a look & found the DPTI facebook page where I selected posts to get
I posted slightly modified version of my first post in this discussion.
Couldn't find it for a bit but then it appeared in visitor posts without the pic.
Looked around & then found "Message" & did another here.
Will await a response. :-)
Are still awaiting a response forSAPOL traffic complaint re pic in my 1st post.
Earlier this year BISA wrote to DPTI about the problem. They've had a look at it and agreed to fix it, at a cost of $60,000 to next year's budget. Thanks to Paul May for investigating and drafting the letter to DPTI's CE.
If you're not a member of BISA, think about it. It's free and the more numbers we have, the more influential we can be.
Good morning Ian.
So we know how much! to fix, but what is the fix? and is it really a fix or a compromise? If DPTI know the cost they obviously know what the action is they are undertaking.
No, didn't run my finger over the screen to pick up the fact that the bold text was a HTML link. :-)
I have now, question remains, the letter stated that some possible asphalt treatment will fix it? hmm there is at least one section going up there that the guard barrier is too close to do that. Also there seems to be no mention of a policy review about these things which is the greater problem. They can/do appear anywhere any time, They are positioned to the immediate left of the white line. If a cyclist gets caught riding on or just to the right of the white fog line when they appear, how does the cyclist safely get to the other side of them? If these things are to be put down how often is the debris cleared from the section to the left of them, apart from say "never" even what shoulder there is on that road (and others) rarely is cleared and thus difficult to use as the weeds and rubbish builds up. And the water running quickly down the hill cuts a furrow between the dirt and the bitumen leaving no room for error before losing your front wheel.
Currently highways rely upon cars/heavy vehicles and their speed and thus the sweeping effect they create to keep the roads clear as the rubbish etc gets blown to the side, where these audio tactile line markings are, no vehicle gets close often enough to keep that section of road clear which tends to "crimp" the cyclist between the rubbish/water damage on one side and the ATLM on the other creating an unsafe scenario as hitting either one can make the bicycle unstable.
And on a section of road with no ATLM you have say 100mm of fog line and a cyclist often rides on that line or say 150mm either side of it as it is usually smooth and clean. But with ATLM that 400mm has been removed from availability as the ATLM is right against and to the left of the fog line forcing the cyclist further left and further in to the rubbish and sections of the road that are not maintained.
I notice that the letter I linked on the BISA post has a number you can ring to find out more beyond "construction of an asphaltic shoulder or overlaying the existing shoulder for a total of 1.16km".
I would ring the number but don't know enough about the problem/ location to be sure I could answer your question.
Perhaps you could fill us in?
I have rang the number and left a message about it. I suspect someone will call in the next day or so regarding my query. Thanks for posting the response.
Do agree with your lack of faith in DPTI Norm and also your concern on the lack of detail provided. Good luck with your inquiry & look forward to hearing the result.
Also agree with your comments on cleaning gravel & rubbish from the shoulder outside ATLMs. Some sort of regular sweeping is needed along there to clean the shoulder.
To be honest DPTI & councils need to plan & provide regular maintenance of bike lanes, paths etc vegetation, gravel, glass etc.
Did receive call and had a long discussion, not just Sellicks but the whole process.
main roads rely upon the sweeping effect of high speed cars to keep roads clean with ATLM the cyclist is forced wider where there is less cleaning effect.
Being trapped, cyclist on fog line suddenly finds themselves trapped between the ATLM and the traffic then having to negotiate riding over ATLM to get to a safe section of road. Possible loss of control of bike.
ATLM effectively robs the cyclist of about 300mm, ie the 100mm fog line plus about 100mm either side. This forces cyclist either further into lane or on the other side into the Rubbish.
there were other points discussed but the above are the main points I recall and my thrust was and conceded that possibly not part of the consideration. ATLM is a very good safety feature, it needs more thought however in implementation.
Notes were taken during the call and would be fed back to planners which is what I was after really so the same mistakes are not repeated.
Well done in your discussion. Hopefully will add further feedback to DPTI that ATLMs can only be used with care on wide shouldered roads with careful considerations of cyclists using the road.
I think it is terrific news that DTPI have agreed it fix the Sellicks Hill ATLMs at a cost of $60K.
They may not completely fix them but will certainly improve the situation & DPTI should definitely be more cautious & considerate before installing any more on other roads.
Great result by BISA and my thanks to all at BISA, particularly Paul May.
I'll pass this on to Paul.