Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Frank on February 3, 2012 at 11:04

I helped a mate build a bike out of his smashed up frame and we found there can be so many little hidden hairline fractures not immediately visible.

Do you or would you feel safe riding down at some insane speed for a bike with a handle bar, stem or crank that could possible be ready to let go at any time.

It should be written off similar as a car.

I know of a guy riding a old Peugot frame down sheppards hill rd and his steerer gave way, he had a bar sticking through his jaw, lost most teeth, jaw and had to have 4 full facial reconstructions, just getting new teeth now all because he wanted to ride an old clunker next to guys on new bikes and show them how good he was on an old steel frame.

Only weeks before we all(most of us) mentioned or asked the question"You sure that thing is safe"?

Bottom brackets can take a hit and so can everything else in an impact.

105 brakes are cheap, offer them $100 or see a LBS and get them to give it a very low value.

To be safe, get all new gear imho and from what I have witnessed. Be safe!

Permalink Reply by Mike Brisco on February 3, 2012 at 11:40

Thanks for letting us know the name of the insurance company , AAMI. Insurance companies always try to minimize what they have to pay out. Sometimes this is legit. Sometimes, as here, probably not.

I presume you are trying to treat the bike as a write off ie arguign for replacemnet. AAMI are presumably trying to minimise how much they have to spend - by arguing there is still some value in the wreck. 

What AAMI are trying , is  shift onto you, some  costs and risks, they ought to be covering, but dont want to. Tthese are:   cost of  time of salvaging those parts  ; the time it takes you to sell them;   ie cost of your time to sell them; Risks that you may not be able to sell them or may get less than you thought.

Imagine if AAMI managed their car claims that way. . Normally, when a car is in a crash, its a write off and they pay to replace. Instead,  - they  take the replacement value - ask you to get a quote to sell all the bits secondhand (how much for a carburettor? two door handles? A battery, slightly damaged? A timing belt?). Then will give you a small cheque, and leave you to sell all the bits secondhand yourself; or transfer them to another car assuming you could find one. If you complain - they will say, look at the quote, you are not out of pocket. And the dishonesty on their part, they have passed on to you significant costs of time and risk; and are not disclosing this.

You see how the trick is done?

So some half serious suggstions for you..

First - ask the bike shop how much it would pay you, for the bike as one  salvage item, in order to get those parts.  That is the bike's market value . Once you start talking individula parts - you involve costs and labor recovering those... .

Two, if you the bike shop how much for the parts sold individually, or look it up on ebay -   factor in the costs of dismantling,  cleaning them for sale and selling them. E.g if the parts individually add up to $300. And it would take someone 4 hours to remove them and clean them , $50 an hour labour. Then tell the insurance company $100 (300-4x50) not 300. If the value of the parts is to be realised by sale - the labor of dismantling cleaning and so on, cant be avoided, and has to be accounted for. Even if you do it yourself.

Three  why not offer to give AAMI the bike, in return for a replacement?  AAMI can then salvage the parts themselves, and sell them,  to recoup their losses. That should work out no different to them, than you getting a quote, and them paying the balance. 

Finally,  if you want to salvage the parts yourself -  expect AAMI to cover costs of everything else (frame wheels etc all bought separately) plus your labour. Again works out no different in the end, than AAMI giving you replacement price minus salvage.

 If the above helps you get a better payout from AAMI - good luck.  

Other readers - i hope the above, illustrates this common trick. Please look out for it in future. And perhaps you now have a few ideas on what to do.

Permalink Reply by Tim on February 3, 2012 at 11:51

Insurance companies always try it on. I have no idea about the specifics of your situation, but if their client is admitting negligence send them a final demand for the full replacement value of the bicycle and tell them that you will sue them unless full payment is made within 21 days, make it clear that the bicycle is wrecked, that the damage was the fault of their client and that your claim is reasonable (cut and dry letters are best). If they don't pay then take action using the small claims court:-

http://www.courts.sa.gov.au/community/going_to_court/index1.html

It is unlikely that the court will find against you or judge that you are owed less than they are offering, your costs apart from time will be minimal, and they are likely to just pay rather than waste time and money defending against your claim - this is *not* legal advice and of course it could turn out very differently.

After you get your money then you can offer them $100 for the wreckage!

* If the damage is more than $6000 you can't use small claims court and you should be getting real legal advice.

Permalink Reply by Don Plush on February 3, 2012 at 12:42

I am not sure that there is any "trick" that AAMI are trying to play here?

If they total loss the bike then they will payout Darren the total replacement value of the bike.  At that point in time the salvage (wrecked bike) becomes the property of the insurance company to do what they like with (same goes for a car).  In this case they are asking if Darren wants to buy the wreck off of AAMI. Maybe he has asked them if he can buy it?.  They are trying to find out how much the wreck is worth so that they can offer it for sale to Darren.

The sneaky bit is that AAMI are asking Darren to do the leg work to find out the value.  In the case of a car, AAMI would set the price based on what they think it will bring at a wrecked car auction.  The reason they are making Darren do this is because they have no idea of how to do it - they are motor insurer, not a bike specialist.  They are probably not that interested in the wrecked bike at all.

Often in cases like this the insurance company elects to give the bike to owner free of charge or for a small cost.  This is because it is too hard for them to deal with.  I would be interested to know what they would do if you said "No, I don't want salvage.  Just settle me the full amount."  Would they ask for the bike back? Would they send out a courier truck to pick up the bike?

Permalink Reply by Darren on February 3, 2012 at 14:15

I didn't catch this response before.   You're correct, they've offered to sell it to me for salvage.  I was expecting them to suggest a nominal cost that both parties could accept and move on, afterall I think the effort/cost involved in AAMI auctioning the bike for salvage will be in excess of the parts and disposal costs.

However, their "bicycle claims department" are making me do the leg work in finding an independent party to cost the salvage.  They've also told me the alternative is to arrange for me to drop off the bike at one of their service centers...

Anyhow, I've just told them I'm no longer interested in its salvage and to arrange full payment and pick up the damaged bike...

Permalink Reply by Mike Brisco on February 3, 2012 at 14:24

OK I missed that,

I didnt realise Darren wanted to buy the bike back off the insurance company.

 I'd assumed Darren wanted a replacement or replacement value - but AAMI were  forcing him to accept the wreck or its monetary value, as part-settlement of the claim.

 

Permalink Reply by Darren on February 3, 2012 at 12:48

I think initially I thought salvage might be worthwhile, maybe I'd score a cheap winter bike out of a bad situation.  Seeing the crashed bike in the garage every morning only serves as a reminder for what happened, and after 4 weeks of continually calling the insurer to keep them moving I really CBF anymore.  I think I'll bite the bullet and put the onus on them to come pick it up.

I hadn't mentioned the name of the insurer in previous posts but I've listened to their waiting music quite enough now...

Permalink Reply by Don Plush on February 3, 2012 at 13:00

Bit unlucky on the timing of it all.  Bad hailstorm in Melbourne on Christmas Day has put huge pressure on insurance companies Australia wide.  Most claims departments are flat our trying to sort out all the claims.  Given that you are a third party with a bike, you are possibly not a very high priority to AAMI at the moment.  Unfortunately the only answer is to keep ringing them and put the pressure on them to settle it quickly.

Permalink Reply by Darren on February 3, 2012 at 14:16

Hadn't thought of that.  Its amazing how quickly the calls came today after giving them a rev-up this morning.

Permalink Reply by Patrick O'Kane on February 3, 2012 at 13:28

When my bike was written off i asked the insurance company what i should do with the frame (cactus) and the other components. ie Could I sell them?

They said if i sold any parts i should forward that money to them. I asked could i keep the parts myself (I still have the wheels, cassette and cranks). If they had wanted them back they would have had to come to my place at a time of my convenience to collect the salvage, hardly worth their while IMO.

Permalink Reply by durian rider on February 3, 2012 at 14:34

I ride alloy bits so I can recycle em easily.

Stems, bars, seatpost, forks, frames are worthless after a big crash. Time for the recycling bin.

Permalink Reply by Darren on February 3, 2012 at 14:47

The alloy bits other than the levers are in pretty good shape bar a scrape here or there.  If I stripped them off to build a new bike its going to take time and effort for maybe a few hundred in parts.  Add to that the insurer wants me to lug the bike to the LBS for a quote so they can deduct it from my claim and the math no longer works.  The ball is in their court now - they pay replacement cost, they own the bike, they dispose of it - we'll soon see how important it is to them...

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