Grenfell Street bus lane - but what about the bikes? Epilogue
So the government is apparently going to make the left hand lane in Grenfell/Currie a dedicated bus lane. From the story in the Advertiser and the animated "fly-over" it looks like there is no space allocated at all for cyclists. So I assume that means they are also going to turn Gawler Place south of Grenfell Street into a "cycles permitted 2-ways" street and maybe make Flinders Street or Pirie into a dedicated bike boulevard? Hey...did I just see some pigs flying past my office window??
Ok lots of people seem to completely missed the original point of my post and the discussion has descended in typical fashion to a bit of name calling and point scoring. Time to close it I think. My point was not to complain about the bus lane - I think it's a good idea and a potential solution to the problems of sharing for different modes of transport i.e. to privilege some forms of transport on some roads to discourage their use by other forms of transport. In that light my question was to ask "if they are going to privilege public transport on this road is there any chance they might privilege cycle transport somewhere else?" I am not convinced that sharing all spaces is the best solution for every situation and as I have commented I would prefer not to share the bus lane with buses and they probably don't want to share with us much either...
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Doddsy on -
People need to be reminded that cyclists are allowed to ride in bus lanes.
The opening paragraph of this discussion is proof of that.
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Permalink Reply by Doddsy on
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All of Sydneys shared bus lanes are red.
Bike Symbols stop the occasional uneducated bus and taxi driver from giving you a hard time.
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Permalink Reply by john mills on
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I have not cycled in the city square since the sixties, when I lived near Hurtle Square and cycled down Pultney, Pirie and Currie streets to Adelaide Boys High School for a couple of years.
Today it appears that in some streets there is just one lane for cars and bikes, or two lanes, where the lanes are narrow and there is not enough room for a decent width bike lane to avoid car doors. One of my friends died on his way to school when he bounced off an opening car door and then was run over. So would there be a problem with just riding down the middle of the lane, as fast as safely possible, and let the cars follow along behind?
Doesn't one of the road rules say that cars, and I assume cycles, are to keep as far left as is safe and practical. So if it's not safe, due to car doors etc. what's wrong just riding up the middle of the lane to stop any car trying to force themselves past and risk side swiping you?
I adopt this approach at small roundabouts in the suburbs. I just make sure I safely drift over to the centre of the lane just before entering the roundabout, knowing that I can cycle through it faster than a car can negotiate it. So why try keeping over to the left, risking misjudging the radius of the curve and hitting the kerb, risking skidding on the loose gravel that might have been pushed over to the edge, and risking a car misjudging an overtake manouvre? If you go into the middle of the lane the driver knows exactly what you're intentions are, and then they can just remain a safe distance behind as they negotiate the give way to the right rule, and the steering of their own vehicle.
So I cannot see the argument about trying to continue a cycle lane through a roundabout, as was suggested I think in another thread about a "disappearing bike lane". And in the same way I suggest that if a street is too narrow for a safe wide bike lane, then just take the centre of the car lane. If you try to squeeze yourself too far left then car's will become confused and some will try to pass, misjudge, and actually knock you down.
The city square is so small that any slowing that a car needs to do will not hold them back by many seconds/minutes. As an example of this on Mother's Day we drove through Adelaide along King William Street, from South Terrace right through to North Adelaide and onwards. Just as we arrived at the red traffic light before crossing South Terrace a small group of four cyclists turned into King William Street. I suggested to my wife that they would probably beat us to North Terrace. Well I was almost right. We passed them about 20 metres before North Terrace.
Those bikes were trying to do the right thing. They squeezed themselves right over to the left of the road, just missing the parked cars all the way through Adelaide. And luckily not colliding with any opening doors. Many cars, including ourselves, overtook them several times on that journey, with consequent risks of accident if either car or rider misjudged, or swerved slightly for some reason. If they had taken the centre of the lane they would have had a much safer journey, and any cars following behind would have been held up by only a minute or two at the most.
Wouldn't this sort of approach, supported by the police and the ACC, be a solution to many safety issues. It would eventually set Adelaide CBD up as a bike friendly place, and motorists would change their attitude of frustration towards cyclists to one of 'Oh well, cyclists have as much right as myself to travel down the centre of a lane IN THE CITY SQUARE.
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Permalink Reply by heather on -
John, one is permitted to not cycle in an operational bicycle lane when 'impractical' and example given is broken glass. So can say that it is impractical to cycle in a bicycle lane within dooring range. However, I have had too negative experiences on Prospect Road where only peak hour bicycle lanes. I am not a fit young male athlete, nor do I have a lightweight road bike with skinny tyres, so cannot keep up with the traffic flow. When I try to claim the lane on Prospect Road for short sections where cars parked, and cycle as fast as I can, inconsiderate drivers still try to run me over. Pass within millimetres so I give up and cycle very slowly next to the parked cars, while moving vehicles overtake me with less than recommended 1.0 or 1.2m clearance.
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Heather, I was only referring to the Adelaide CBD, not the suburbs where the speed limit on most roads is 60km/hr, and the distance between traffic lights is a lot more than a city block.
Also, unless you are a fit cyclist, on a hybrid or road bike, I can understand your fears. I would be the same, even on my nice new fast road bike.
I think the scenario I was trying to get across is much like the message in that photo of the street with large cycle icons painted in the middle of the lane. But not just in sleepy little back streets, also in some chosen 'major' roads in Adelaide CBD. So motorists are under no illusions as to what should be happening - bikes and cars sharing the same space - not bikes on the left and cars trying to drive faster and overtaking. Not sure, but I think this happens in some European cities? ( Copenhagen?)
So it would involve a co-ordinated exercise. ACC and Road Traffic Board working together. Public training with big publicity exercises on the TV and in the papers. And of course the large bike symbols painted on the chosen roads. It might not be all roads. Maybe just the narrower city roads.
The idea being that there be no bike lane at all. The whole road is a bike lane! But cars can drive down the road also - behind the bikes, at bike speed. If they don't like it, they can 'jump a block', to where they have 'ownership' of the lanes. Something like this occurs in Salisbury Town centre with a shared pedestrian/car street. There is a much slower speed limit in this case. And this could also be the case where bikes and cars share a common lane. Maybe 25km/hr for both cars and bikes?
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Smith on -
Bicycles are alot faster than busses, or cars in the CBD.
I personally hate tangling with busses. If theres something worse than riding alongside a big heavy metal box with an engine, it's riding alongside a BIGGER, HEAVIER metal box with an engine with even worse visibility! Not to mention the bus driver mentality of "I flash my indicator, so you have to move, or i'll move you"
It's a difficult situation, that cant please everyone.
I drive in the CBD alot, and to be honest, busses seem to cause more traffic than they solve....they are so big that they cant overtake each other without pushing across two lanes, they quite often have to wait multiple sets of lights just to move into their stop....completely blocking the left lane. King WIlliam st is effectively like this grenfell st plan at the moment. The left lane completely useless because it's choked with busses.
What to do with bikes on this road? Average vehicle speed is probably about 15-20kph for most of the day along there, so I wouldnt have a problem riding in the far right lane with the cars.
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Permalink Reply by heather on
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It is said that most Adelaide public buses pass through the intersection of Currie-Grenfell / King William Streets. I would not be surprised if a bus lane was marked later in King William Street. I would support such bus lanes, if shared bus lanes that permit cycling. However, different matter if bus only lane and (slower) cyclists forced to mix it with traffic in the travel lanes.
Supposed to be in place by start of Jul-2012. Not much time to get written responses on type of bus lane.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Andy on -
I was silly enough to ride a bike down Grenfell Street in peak hour once.. LOL.
I much prefer North Terrace now - much more predictable and a bit more room - the only parts I'm not fond of is that stupid island thing where the Myer centre carpark exits, and then outside the Oaks Embassy where people seem to forget to check the bike lane before swerving across it to park (where I got cleaned up).
You couldn't pay me enough to cycle regularly down Grenfell and Currie - so a bus lane or no makes no difference to me. The way traffic is down there, people are retarded even to drive down there, its the single biggest choke point in SA at 5PM I think.
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Permalink Reply by Dario Gautama on -
According to my Cycling and Law booklet, cyclist are permitted to using Bus Line.
But....I really don't want to ride with a bus behind me or even worst beside me.
What Adelaide Metro need to do first is raise the quality of their driver first.
I live in Adelaide for 5 years and Adelaide Metro's driver become worse now. -
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Permalink Reply by heather on
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Dario, note the difference between:
-- Shared bus lane -- plain asphalt -- examples in Pulteney Street and Botanic Road
-- Bus only lane -- coloured red -- example of short section on western side of Victoria Square; also short section where King William Road meets Victoria Drive -
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Permalink Reply by Dario Gautama on
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Ah I see, thanks for the Info.
Well...if this really happen, we have good reason to use middle lane which will piss off some motorist. ^^;
Why don't they use this chance to make cycling lane on greenfell st? =_=;
I always avoid greenfell st because it is one of the worst road for cyclist. -
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